Friday, December 25, 2009
Side effects of denamarin
I have been getting many hits on this site on possible side effects to denamarin. Denamarin is a combination of Sylimarin (milk thistle) and SAMe.
Denamarin is considered extremely safe if administered in the recommended dosage. One important point to make is it should be administered on an empty stomach. It has been known to cause diarrhea in some cases.
SAMe can cause some dogs to vomit. But you can switch, with the advice of your vet, to standard milk thistle, liquid vitamin E and a B complex with C. The E and C enhance the effects of the milk thistle.
I have taken Macy off Denamarin. Not that she was having problems with the medication, but she was doing beautifully on the milk thistle plus vitamins. She had come completely out of jaundice, was eating well and had regained all her weight. I must add it is cheaper to make your own denamarin. Here is what she gets. One 500 milligram milk thistle 2x a day, One 200 IU vitamin E soft gel (you can also find this in liquid form at a good health food store) 1x a day, Vitamin B complex with C (make sure this includes at least 50 milligrams of B12) 1x a day. You can pick the dosage you want. I tend to get the highest, 1000 milligrams. Vitamin K, 100 milligrams, 1x a day before bedtime. The vet had prescribed 50 milligrams, but the pills are tiny and impossible to cut in half. I upped the ante and watched her carefully. She has done just fine on the higher dosage.
Again, I must emphasize that SAMe and vitamin E are not the same. SAMe is a biochemical produced by amino acids and used specifically for liver disease. Vitamin E is a supplement that enhances the effects of milk thistle. Partner with your vet before you make the switch and closely monitor the results. If you are noticing side effects to denamarin, vomiting and diarrhea are most common, make sure you are administering the medication on an empty stomach first. If that does not help, then ask your vet if you might try the above substitute
I have found milk thistle to be tremendously effective in Macy's improved health. But the addition of vitamin B, C and E were important too. For more on that read here.
I must encourage bookmarking this site for any questions on pet health or medications. They have a wealth of information in their library that is very user friendly. The other thing I like about their site is it is very balanced in it's opinion. Whenever I have a question, they are my first source of reference. Bookmark it, flag it or make me really happy and make it your home page.
Merry Christmas to you all!
Got lots coming up in the next few weeks, so stay tuned. We are addressing traditional heartworm and flea medications, the study just published in New Zealand on the global impact of pets and discussing more of the searches that land you on my page...successfully or unsuccessfully. This all takes a bit of work, but stay tuned. I really enjoy your feedback, so please don't be shy!
Happy Holidays and all the best for the new year!
Margot Hackett
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25 comments:
I just started denamarin for my 16 yo jack russell and did not give it on an empty stomach and have noticed some diarrhea. I'll hold it until the diarrhea resolves then restart with care to give it on an empty stomach. Thanks!
Your welcome!
One would think that taking it on an empty stomach would actually increase gastric irritation and hence diarrhea. Seems weird that taking it with food would lead to diarrhea and not on an empty stomach. I thought that the advice to take on an empty stomach was in the literature, which was to enhance absorption because taking it with food greatly reduces its effect, and not because of bad side effects. I wonder if Donald's jack russell did any better or worse on an empty stomach.
My Aussie recently went to the ER with a case of high fever due to suspected hepatitis. He was sent home with a 2-week course of Denamarin. He's done beautifully on it (he is also on antibiotics). He was always dosed on an empty stomach and had no problems. My vet suggested buying ingredients over the counter, but we haven't yet discussed the components and their amounts, so thank you for the assist with that.
Rasta, How is your Aussie doing?
A high fever and high biliruben could indeed indicate either hepatitis or leptospirosis. If you have not done so already, you will want to run a lepto test and, if that is negative, proceed with an ultrasound and a biopsy.
Not cheap! I think my bill was over 6 grand.
I was able to save a lot on the expenses by going over the counter where possible. Vitamins E,C, B and K are all available at your supermarket or pharmacy.
Vitamin K, used to prevent internal bleeding in liver disease, is available at any good natural health store and the savings are significant. The chewable vitamin K the vet was giving me was $50 for a months supply. I was able to buy a three month plus supply at my natural health center for around $12 dollars. (K must also be administered on an empty stomach.)
If your vet prescribes ampicillan, ask him/her for a written prescription. Publix supermarkets will fill them for free and Walmart will fill for something like three dollars.
Denamarin can be purchased at 1-800-Pet Meds at roughly a $20 dollar savings over purchasing at your vets.
My 12-year old toy poodle was diagnosed with liver failure at the end of December 2011. Her liver enzyme count was way over the top. I expected the worst. The vet prescribed Denamarin and Dibley's been on it ever since. Together with a complete change in diet - everything prepared by me and no dog foods - she seems to be doing okay (I've even got her eating cottage cheese!). She definitely has quality of life. She's had a loose tum just once, but I wouldn't say it was the fault of Denamarin. The very first thing we do in the mornings is feed her the Denamarin. I'm hoping the next blood test results will show some improvement.
I was wondering since the vitamin E and SAMe weren't the same - did you give SAMe also? They just put our 11y/o dog on Denamarin for elevated liver enzymes and would prefer a less expensive route of improving her health
I didn't because it wasn't available here Tami. And trust me I looked. I used regular, old vitamin E. But that is recommended as well for dogs with this condition. About 250 IU daily for a dog 25lbs. I would suggest you take a look at my post regarding diet and meds for a dog with liver disease. It will lay it out for you
Su, I am so glad to hear your poodle is not having an issue with Denamarin. Macy didn't either. But it was made clear to me on the day it was prescribed, it must be on an empty stomach. So I would pill her in the morning an hour before mealtime.
For you guys wondering, I strongly suggest you take a look at at Cyndi Smasal's book on diet and meds. It's called "Hope for healing liver disease." She really did the footwork on this issue. I emailed her and told her what a revelation she was to me.
You can find it on Amazon.
Regarding Vitamin C: be aware that dogs- unlike humans- actually make their own C, so if you supplement with C, their system will eventually cease to produce it (depending on amounts supplemented). The only downside to this is that you then MUST provide ALL the C they require.
There is some good quantitative research out there on the 'net for further reading.
You can purchase Denamarin for dogs online, for half the cost of the supplement from the vet. As I have a smaller 18.4lb dog, I will stick with the vet's idea for supplementation and not overdose the dog on vitamins. That is not a good thing either. Would not be cheaper for me to buy the other ingredients and have to put them together myself that I can see.
No prescription needed online.
My dog has had two SERIOUS nose bleeds while taking Denamarin. She was also taking tramadol for spine pain. I mean serious like 25 percent of her blood. When not taking the tramadol she was fine with the Denamarin . Any one else have an issue With nose bleeds while on this?
Tramadol can do that. Not saying that is what is happening with your dog but Nsaids, Non steroidal, anti inflammatory drugs, are notorious. Admittedly this is the first I've heard of bleeding through the nose. But it doesn't surprise me. Get your dog to a vet. Have a complete blood work up done, especially liver panels. If those strike suspect, get her off the meds permanent and retest in a month. I know that sounds expensive but you can just test the liver. But get her of the Tramadol!!
it appears the SAMe question was still not answered! gievelsEn17ving vitamins are not the same as SAMe...by any stretch...Administering SAMe (S-Adenosylmethionine), which is found in Denamarin, has been shown to markedly increase liver levels of glutathione,an important compound for liver health formed when SAMe is metabolized. The SAMe in Denamarin has also been shown to help protect liver cells from cell death and may help cell repair and regeneration.has anyone out there successively made theri own denamrin using SAMe and if yes,what is the formula...kindness,
mary beth
So what should I have said in relation to SamE? Your absolutely right as to the benefits. But some dogs get very sick, digestive issues generally.
I have a 12 yr old Schipperke who recently, out of the blue started having balance and sight issues. If she leans her head down she has this forward momentum that she cannot control. She Is on phenobarbital And has been for 5 years. Tests were conducted on her liver and it was found her bile acids were elevated. Seeing as they can't figure out as to why she's having these balance issues, they are assuming its from the liver or it's dementia. They started her on Denamarin three days ago and I am hoping for the best. Can anyone offer any information as to how long it takes for this drug to start working? Or has anyone ever experience balance issues in their pets that are having liver trouble?
My 8 year old Golden has just been put on Denamarin because of high liver enzymes. I must say that administering the very large pill without food to hide it in is proving stressful. My girl coughs and gags every time. I put the pill far back in the mouth then squirt some water from a syringe to help it go down. She and I both dread it every day. I wish there was a better way!
I have given my dog Denamarin for 2 years now. At first she had a pill every morning but after a month she got it every second day. That worked well for a year and half, but then I had to start giving it to her every day again.
I give her a pill covered with a thin coat of liverpastry + a tiny bit afterwards - on a empty stomach. It works well - she has no diarrhea or vomits. I make her sit on her hindlegs to take the tablet, that way she has to raise her head so the throat is straight. I use the tiny bit to tempt her so she keeps this postion while she swallows the pill. It works well!
I dip the pill in water before putting it in my dogs mouth. I then use more water and holding the muzzle with my hand I rub the underside of her jaw/throat and she swallows just fine. I think the key is the wet pill
Regarding your 12yr old Shirperke. Your dogs problem could be the phebobarbital. Even though he has taken it in the past, he may no longer be able tolerate it. I assume he is it for seizures? I work with a rescue and recently one of our dogs was put on phenobarbital for his seizures. He satarted getting symptoms similar to uour dog. Only they got so bad he was staggering and not responding neurologically when taken to the vet. The young vet hinted that the best thing was to euthanize the dog. Our people took the dog to a neurologist we work with. In just a short time, she said it was the pheno. The dog was taken off it and is now his usual happy self. He is being given a different anti seizure drug.
Thank you from one anonymous to another. I hope that has you sorted! I think the mingling of minds never hurts! But if not i will ask. Not my specialty but I will look into it
Anonymous with the Golden. I get that. I so do because I am going through that very thing. So you have a dog with a heightened gag reflex. OK.. most every pharmacy has a pill grinder. You can chew that massive pill into powder and mix it with a bit of water and give it to her that way. Or cut the pill into tiny bits, which is what I have had to do with many of my meds. Royal pain, I grant you, but might work.
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